Reply With QuoteTurn on some volume first...
http://youtu.be/nN2KHYgxbng
Oh well, I made up a colored chart on Exxcel, but I do not have a clue how to copy/paste/link/whatever it is, on here.
Anyway, my point was to show, IN COLOR, how much of a factor the NC State BB program was at the very beginning of the Atlantic Coast Conference, and on up until... the dividing line of... 1990. It's all common knowledge and easily accessible on the internet, but at that point, NC State had 10 ACC Championships, unc had 11, and Duke had 8. Those three programs had combined to win 78% of the ACC Championships in the years leading up to, and until... 1990. Also, in those same years, NC State had earned 2 National Championships, unc had earned 2 also (well 3 if you ask them, and count championships before there ever were any championships like they do), and poor old Duke had earned... a big fat 0...notta.
Then after that, well, that's where NC State was left behind to choke itself on a huge cloud of mixed blue dust. Instead of the usual Big 3 butting heads, it was now narrowed down to The Big 2 to have it pretty much all to themselves. Both Duke and unc continued their winning ways in search of college BB titles, and as for NC State, well, we just kinda stepped politely aside and started researching new and exciting ways to use the success of those two former rivals, as our own excuse NOT to even make an honest attempt at success. Anyway, in the years after... 1990, unc has gone on to add 8 more ACC championships, while Duke has added an incredible 11 to it's total. So it's now The Big TWO, who have combined to capture 16 of the last 21 ACC championships, at about a 76% clip. They've continued on their winning ways nationally as well, with unc adding 3 more National Championships for a total of 5, and Duke picking up all of their 4 National Championship trophies in the modern era, or post... 1990.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not just digging all of this stuff up in order to have a reason to grumble. I did my fancy chart in hopes that all of that early colorful display of RED showing up all over the place would add some perspective, or maybe shed some light for those who don't already have a feel for just how important and instrumental NC STATE was in actually CREATING the ACC, as well as iniating all of this college BB insanity that spread like wildfire all up and down a place we call Tobacco Road.
It has been an absolutely depressing two decades worth of mind-numbing-nothingness, but we started this entire thing off at the very top of the heap, and as hard as it is to believe, we are finally heading back there!!! And rightfully so!!!
Last edited by redfreda; 04-13-2012 at 11:36 PM.
Turn on some volume first...
http://youtu.be/nN2KHYgxbng
Last edited by redfreda; 04-14-2012 at 02:20 PM.
Wait!!! Don't leave yet!!! Watch the whole thing, all 15 minutes, the plot really thickens at the end.
You're playing right into your critics' hands, you know, bringing your own sleep aid to the thread.
The fact is, NC State is light years behind the Blues because of the past two decades. Even if, say, Duke, falls off the map just as we did in the early 90's, there's UNC to continue their tradition of winning. And, if Roy suffers from career ending vertigo and is stuck to the floor for the rest of his life, and UNC hires another Matt Doherty, Duke will still be competing for Championships until K's back gives out, and possibly after.
So, unless the perfect storm happens (which is every State fan's dream) and both Blues fall at the same time, there's little hope that we'll catch those numbers within our lifetimes. We have to create a dominant program and maintain it while UNC and Duke (along with the rest of the ACC, including Syracuse) have to absolutely refuse to compete for the top spot in the ACC and in the NCAA.
Now, the other possibility is that Gottfried stays here until he retires, builds a dynasty and maintains a level of excellence that no other
ACC teams could match. Is that even possible without some help?
It would help if K, Roy and Boeheim all retire, and all hire busts. Then, we only have to win 10 ACC Titles to get back into the conversation...without the Blues winning anymore until that time!
They cannot take away our accomplishments, though. We are among the few teams in the country to have multiple National Championships, and will move into more elite company with one more NCAAC. We are part of the three teams in the history of the ACC that have won about 95% of the ACC Championships, already. We helped to found the ACC. We started traditions that reach across the sport, even today, in cutting down the nets after a championship, player introductions, the alley-oop and more. We have provided the basketball world with one of the most revered coaches in History in Valvano, and arguably the best player in college basketball history in David Thompson. We stopped UCLA's decade of dominance while fielding one of the best teams of all time, in 1974. And, we proved that miracles happen at NC State when we overcame insurmountable odds to beat a talent laden team of future HOF'ers, in the 1983 National Championship Game against Houston. Not only that, but that game provided the most exciting ending to a National Championship game in college basketball history, and has been driven into the lore of the NCAA Tournament itself. It sparked what came to be known as March Madness.
We have had players, coaches and teams that were so good that the rules of the game had to be changed. We played (again, arguably) the greatest college game ever played, against Maryland. 3 overtimes. Two top-5 teams. The NCAA Tournament expanded after that year because the loser of that game (Maryland) had to sit at home, rather than playing for a National Championship in the tournament.
And, the biggest point of them all? Tobacco Road would not be here if it were not for NC State University. You see, after WWII, we sought out a new basketball coach. Chancellor Harrelson (yes, of Harrelson Hall) called on the recommendation from the, then Army Head Coach, Chuck Taylor (yes, the inventor of the Basketball shoe). His recommendation was for that of his High School Coach from Indiana, Everett Case. Case went on to rename the Red Terrors after his first season. He called them the Wolfpack. He also won six consecutive Southern Conference Titles, oversaw the construction of Reynolds Coliseum and ushered the Pack into their new conference, the ACC. Case brought the excitement of college basketball to North Carolina. His reign fanned the flames of the rivalries on Tobacco Road. It wouldn't have been the way it is today, if it weren't for the little man from Indiana.
I guess I could go on and on. My point is that we have all of the tradition that Duke and UNC could ever want. I guess I could have summed that point up a bit quicker, huh? We'll catch them some day. It's not over until we say it is. Was it over, when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell No! And, It's not over now!
Who's with me!?
Go State!
Last edited by ppack3; 04-14-2012 at 08:07 PM.
Um ppack.... ummmm.... I guess it would have been over if the Germans had bombed Pearl Harbor, as that would have meant that they had most of the world under their control. But no, it wasn't over when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor, as that is what enabled us to enter the war.
^ Wow! That's exactly how the rest of the cast of Animal House responded to John Belushi when he posed the same question!
Sorry. The sarcasm is unwarranted. The last part was part of my post was from the movie Animal House. I quote really old movies sometimes, not realizing just how old I really am. 37.
I do appreciate your knowledge of WWII, though. That's impressive.
Um, I guess maybe somebody needs to get Sundrop a VHS player.
Anyway, I just wanted an "attaboy redfred", or a sarcastically patronizing "OK redfred, we hear ya', you're the best!!!" Just something simple like that maybe pp3. I wasn't expecting anything like that fact-laden monologue full of truths that you just layed out there. Geez, lighten up man.
Seriously though, and as far catching the two blues in the overall percentages/totals, maybe, and maybe not??? The way I see it, NC State strapped on it's own handicap, and actually wore it with with some outlandish sense of pride for over two decades already. We started this whole BB thing off in this region, now we have just recently thrown our own shovels away, climbed up out of our own hole, we know exactly what we are capable of, and we have already started ANEW... as of the college BB season of 2012!!!
Just start seriously competing, beating them with some amount of regularity from here on out. The foundation has ALWAYS been sitting there, and just waiting, so just USE IT!!! That's really all we've been begging and pleading about for the past two decades anyway.
Last edited by redfreda; 04-14-2012 at 09:21 PM.
I read it again, GOOD STUFF up there pp3!!!
^ Attaboy, RedFred. You're the best!
Didn't intend to show you up, but to put an emphasis on our tradition. It's as rich as anyone in the country, including the 'Blue Bloods" (i.e. UNC, Duke, Kentucky, UCLA, etc.) It's time we revive the Red Bloods (i.e. NC State, Indiana, etc.)! Tom Crean is doing really well at Indiana, BTW.
The rant that I went on was off the cuff. I would love to sit down and compile all of the wonderful ties that we have to the history of the game and our impact on that history. But, I have a feeling that Tim Peeler has a lock on that sort of thing?
Regardless, if we rise to the level of National Power again, we can easily put NC State in that elite company of teams with 3+ National Championships with just one more. The heard thins even more with 2 more. Relevance, prominence and dominance is within our grasp. Once we add a recent winning tradition to our past winning tradition, we effectively negate (or at least dampen) the past twenty years of self deprecation.
I'm ready.
BTW, I kinda like having a fun thread over here on the Free expression Forum.
Yeah well, me too pp3. I'm kinda tiring of the scenario, stacked on top of another scenario, when not a thing has even happened since the scenario that was conjurred up, fifteen scenarios back.
And if that show-up-redfred rant was totally "off the cuff", well then, I am truly impressed. I'll say that I already knew about pretty much everything you said there, but I can't just remember it, nor word it nearly as well. Also, the cuff on my "off the cuff" is getting shorter and shorter all of the time. And hey, and I did say "cuff" there, so watch it, don't nobody go gettin' cutezy.
Anyway, I'm certain that you do not have memories of the 1973-74 seasons pp3, and I cannot do to them justice for anyone reading. But watching a team start out and then really develop over the course a season does make for a truly enjoyable ride. But I cannot find the words to describe how it feels when from day one YOU KNOW YOU HAVE IT!!! From season to season, YOU JUST KNOW!!! Everything you need and ALL OF IT!!! You absolutely cannot wait for the clock to tick down or for the time to elapse between games!!! It's HUGE TARGET pasted right on the back, night after night, and every single time out there. The anticipation, the pressure of everyone gunning for you, it's crazy!!!
1983!!! What can you say??? It was absolutely unbelievable in every way, and I cannot imagine how anyone could even script anything comparable to that storyline. But, and at least in my mind anyway, those earlier, and those 365 days packed with outrageous expectations, and to see your team calmly walk out onto the hardwood, night after night, and find a way to deliver on every bit of it!!! And to do while going up against some of greatest collegiate players/teams/BB programs, of all time!!! SIMPLY UNREAL!!! Beating Wooden/Walton and dethroning the 10 time Champ UCLA Bruins was one thing, but to have beaten Lefty's outrageously talented Maryland team as many times as we did, our court, their court, or wherever, and in some of the greatest and most highly contested BB games ever played!!! It was simplybeyond words.
6'4" David Thompson was soooo incredibly dominant, against ANYBODY, and from anywhere on the BB court that he chose to play, that some say that he was a "once in a lifetime". I say that he was a "ONE of a kind, FOR-EVER!!!"
Might be getting a little old, but anyway, I'm still thankful that I was around to witness all of that.
Last edited by redfreda; 04-15-2012 at 12:15 AM.
That's my bad. I've never watched Animal House, nor do I want to. I was hoping you were just playing, but with some people you just never know.
^ That's alright. I really need a sarcasm font. But, that's been tried a million times and never caught on. Anyway, I should have quoted the line. That would have avoided confusion.
I have to ask though, you've never seen it, nor do you want to? Too crude? Too old? Animal House is a college classic. Timeless, IMO. Like the Gone with the Wind of college flicks. But, to each his own. My sense of humor can be juvenile at times. But hey, at least my kid likes it!
RedFred, I was but a embryo when we won the 1974 Championship, literally. I was born in early July of that year. Needless to say, '74 was a very good year! However, I do not recall the particulars of that basketball season.
I do remember the 1983 National Championship. In fact, at 8 years old, it is some of my earliest memories of Pack Basketball. But, that is still very young.
My knowledge of Wolfpack history comes from my family, and the sheer will to learn about those times. Because my roots run pretty deep (so far as fans in my family) the enthusiasm has always surrounded me. I recall trying to shoot like Terry Gannon in my neighbor's driveway. But, even so, I did not really live the glory days as did many from the generation before me. I didn't know what it really meant, at the time, to have the dominant team that people feared. I was just a kid. By the time I really understood what the rivalries meant (aside from my distaste for all things blue) we were moving towards the tribulation. The few good years between were those years with Vinny Del Negro, Spud Webb etc., all the way through the Fire and Ice/Googs years.
My dedication hasn't wavered. I equate it to the Hoosiers. Just because there are some lean years, doesn't mean that your roots run straight to the origins of the game. It doesn't mean that your colors run. It only strengthens resolve. The tough times are what makes us stronger. It's telling, to me, that we have one of the largest booster clubs in the country, despite the lack of Championships in the past 2-3 decades, in either major sport. It shows that our fans are not 'Wal-Mart' fans. Sure, we have some bandwagon fans, but not nearly to the number that some light blue schools have, who jump on and off of the ship, depending on whether or not the teams are winning. There's pride in that fact. And, it will make Championships all the sweeter, when they come.
ppack, it's just never really appealed to me. I do like Porky's though.
Sun, you are officially an enigma, wrapped up in a conundrum. Porky's, appealing. Animal House, not appealing. You are a mystery, my friend.Originally Posted by sundropdrinker13
IMO, Porky's was very similar to Animal House, minus the awesome soundtrack.
Shower scene = Sorority house scene.
Fake boob puke = Fake zit pop.
And on and on.
I enjoy them both. Probably too much.
Maybe it's the cast from Animal House, I don't know. I'm not a fan of the Belushi's, so that might be it right there.
That'd do it...
pp3, I have attempted to put myself into the shoes of NC State fans from your era, and I've often wondered if I would feel the passion that I do right now when looking at it from you guy's perspective???
I'd like to think so, but honestly, I dunno??? I gotta believe that even though I was influenced very early on by several previous generations of my family who were State grads, that it was being able to see it with my own two eyes that reinforced my diehard Wolfpack resolve.
Like I say, I can't answer that question, and I'm glad I do not have to. Either way though, I truly admire the great fans like yourself that have clung so tightly and never wavered, even when there has been little or no return on your long term investments.
My hat is WAY, WAAAY OFF to you and all of the NC STATE FANS of your era!!!
I appreciate those kind words, RF. Honestly, I learned about having that pride from my family. And, up until I was in High School, I got to see some pretty good years of NC State Basketball. And, I know plenty of friends and family that are my age that absolutely bleed NC State red. You would never talk any of them out of their loyalty. No losing could ever sway them, or me. But, I do not accept losing. I tolerate it fairly well, but will never accept it.
I drank pretty heavily during my college years, when we played games. But, I was in Reynolds, or in my dorm, rooting hard. It was a really tough time. We had several moments with CC Harrison and guys like Todd Fuller. But the lows were lower. Losing to the likes of Campbell, and struggling to win 5 conference games. The Les Robinson moniker was a slap in the face.
I recall being fairly excited about Herb being hired. However, I think that it was more about Les stepping down that gave me some hope. I say that because Les just couldn't recruit with the big boys. He was throttled by restrictions and he didn't develop his guys very well. Herb quickly proved that it was going to be a struggle. Until year six, we were who we had been under Les. Hodge brought some excitement, along with his recruiting class. But, with that class, came the Princeton Offense. I knew, at that time, that Herb may win more games (and he did), but just like the statistics driven approach that he brought to the game, realistically that offense would never win a championship at the major college level. I recall making the tournament and thinking, "I hope we shoot at least 60% every game, and hold every opponent to 55 points." That was the patented sarcasm that I used to make it through the lean years. I knew that those things wouldn't happen. We couldn't score in any conventional manner. The most surprising game during the entire era was the shot Hodge hit to beat UCONN in the NCAA Tourney. It was remarkable because Herb never (and I mean, never) had a play drawn for such a situation. If we didn't win by 10 points, we didn't win. And, that shot was all Julius' will and determination. My guess is that herb told Jules to "Run the Offense" prior to that play. After we won, I was very excited for the team, and for Jules. But I had been around the game long enough to know that it meant nothing for the rest of the tournament. We relied on stopping offensive juggernauts and shooting unbelievable percentages in order to win, and that doesn't happen every night. Not in the NCAAT.
I hated that the fans were chastised in the media for running Herb out of town. But, the other side of that coin? NC State fans know basketball! They understood that we weren't on a path that lead anywhere. We were on a path that lead nowhere.
Now, Fowler screwed us in the coaching search. And, from comments from writers and coaches around the country, the main problem with Fowler, was Fowler. No coach in their right mind wanted to work for the guy. He ostracized himself and the University. I will be forever grateful that Sidney Lowe offered to coach this team. And, I know that some people feel differently about Sid. But, from my perspective, he did three major things during his tenure. He ushered out the players that were pigeon-holed into the Princeton Offense. He recruited hard, starting with Hickson, and continued through the Leslie/Harrow/Brown class. And, lastly, he interjected excitement in the fan base early on. After his first year, I hadn't had such high hopes for success since 1990. Now, it didn't pan out, it's true. But, Sid brought back some of the tradition. He brought back the idea that we could run. He got pro scouts to look to Raleigh again. Now, there were plenty of things that anyone could use to criticize Sidney Lowe. And, most of those things are 100% valid. But the guy loves NC State as much as anyone. But, he ran his course. He transitioned this program, though. And, I'm grateful for that fact.
That brings us to Gottfried. That brings us to Yow. We all know the story. We can all see the passion that they both bring. The future is bright. Really bright.
So pretty much Swofford has to rietre/get fired/ quit?
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